Everybody Comes From Somewhere

February 11, 2007

What IS this thing called, “Community?”

Filed under: Community,Scribe's Corner — scribe40 @ 11:30 am

My mind has been wrapped tight around this topic over these past few weeks, and especially since this new space has practically given itself birth spontaneously. (This has all reminded me of the time when, as a student nurse, I ended up alone in room with a Mom ,who supposedly was hours away from delivery. However THAT baby wasn’t about to wait for anyone’s permission, period and popped himself right into my terrified hands!)

Community. That sense of being part of a gathering of familiar others, where we feel a some measure of “belonging”. I really didn’t “want to want any of that”: it was too dangerous, so for most of my life, I’ve been a loner. I’ve only come to admit I am as human as anyone else over the past 25 (sober) years, and found out that humans are simply built to need each other, period, like it or not. πŸ™‚

But if that’s so, why do attempts to form and sustain “communities” almost always go up in flames sooner or later, over and over again, on line and off line, in workplaces, in social group gatherings, churches and practically everywhere attempts are made to form and keep them going?

I wonder if it’s because we’ve simply forgotten how? I wonder if this culture has been so sucessful in instilling a competative mindset, and a “me/mine first” value system, that we’ve slowly forgotten about the concepts of honestly sharing resources and responsibilities, ie: the common good, in favor of self preservation and protection of our own?

But we keep trying. We run into some gathering of what appear to be “safe others” and we like it. It feels so good. We stay, we invest much energy in it, and in getting to know and trust each other. Finally, theres a place to belong.

But then trouble rears it head, as it always will among mere humans, it’s an awful threat to everyone who is afraid of losing what they have together. And what do we do when we feel threatened? We get scared, we get mad, and we look for something/someone to blame it on. And always, theres plenty of that to pick from, so off we go to war again, with always so much collateral damage done. There just HAS to be another way.

When I back up and look at whats gone on here so far with a wide angle lens, here’s what I see so far, and it is really exciting to me.

There was no long period of grinding up brain cells on anyones part to “define or focus or organise” this space. There was no need to set up any sort of “heirarchy” at all and amazingly, I’ve NOT heard one WORD spent about “how are we going to keep out/control troublemakers! ” (Whassup with THAT, I wonder? Everone KNOWS there HAS to be rules, right?? How else can we keep ourselves “safe”?)

Instead what I saw was a group of community builders who chose to show up voluntarily and simply roll up thier sleeves, unpack whatever materials and tools they brought with them and just plain get to work. To hell with “blueprints!”

Am I seeing what I think I’m seeing? A bunch of folks not held in total bondage by “rational thought” or “documented evidence” of what can and cannot work online? People who dare actually act on what cannot be measured or even explained, but exists within? No. Can’t be.

But we’re doing it anyway πŸ™‚

I’ve already heard the naysayers. They give it a week at best. No way can this work. What a bunch of loopy, out-of-touch-with-reality idealists. Maybe they’re right.

And maybe not.

I’d sure like to hear everyones elses thoughts about what’s been happening here over this past short space of time, and about what this elusive state of being called “community” means to you….

(I’m off line for the afternoon, so will catch up later)

46 Comments »

  1. I haven’t heard any naysayers, but if they’re out there, they’re wrong. And we’ll prove it, together.

    As for what’s happening, I have no clue, other than “to labor and to wait”

    Comment by blueneck — February 11, 2007 @ 12:35 pm | Reply

  2. Well, I don’t know how it happened, because I just found you a couple of days ago, but you’re certainly off to a great start.

    I tend to drift from one set of blogs to another, as my life changes and the times change. I don’t think there’s anything you can do about that. Blogs come and go. The spirit of community is a very real thing, but it won’t last. You have to just know that and appreciate it while it’s here.

    Wow. That was pompous. Sorry πŸ˜‰

    Comment by Ali — February 11, 2007 @ 12:36 pm | Reply

  3. The spirit of a community is undefinable really, isn’t it Ali, and scribe? It’s like “A picture is worth a thousand words” when words won’t adequately describe a scene. Except I think it’s one step further, because you can’t even take a picture of it.

    I do know this, though, that we have started with a group of folks who know beyond words. Not everyone who chances upon us or chooses us will feel the same things, or think the same ways, because that’s what makes a community work. Some tensions may arise from time to time, but I think we’ll deal with them appropriately. I’m not sure exactly how it would happen if it does, but I’m confident that we would navigate troubled waters with all hands on deck. Some watching for the rocks, some trimming the sails, and someone holding the wheel, all working together.

    Comment by blueneck — February 11, 2007 @ 1:02 pm | Reply

  4. Hi Ali,
    I think you’re right to advise appreciation while the sense of community lasts. Life is full of changes. some are painful and others are welcome relief. I’m currently experiencing both of those sensations regarding a recent change.

    As far as this place goes, I tend to think, at least for now, that the collection of people here is pretty exceptional and if community is possible at all in this medium, then here is where it will be proven or disproven. We’re each here for different reasons, with different goals and hopes, and so far, even though it’s only a week or so, I like the closeness and the live and let live feeling I’m getting.

    Peace

    Comment by supersoling — February 11, 2007 @ 1:04 pm | Reply

  5. i’m sure there’s all kinds of studies on the dynamics of community, but it seems to me, like everything else, there’s a natural progression to the forming, maintaining and dissolution of any community.

    unless we’re talking about physical communities, ie, a village or city, and the dissolution comes from a natural disaster or war, then i would posit that most communities fall apart simply because the members move on to other places (or other communities) that serve their purposes better. perhaps the original community has stopped serving the purpose. perhaps either or both the community or the member who moved on has changed in outlook and mission statement.

    whatever, it’s the natural way of the world, and that’s all you can say.

    Comment by skippy — February 11, 2007 @ 1:47 pm | Reply

  6. As in all passings, we must also “live & let die”

    Comment by 37knucklehead — February 11, 2007 @ 2:39 pm | Reply

  7. 37knucklehead,
    Yup, that’s great advice. Hopefully more will take it to heart.

    Comment by supersoling — February 11, 2007 @ 2:44 pm | Reply

  8. While trying to figure out what the heck “existential war” means, I ran across this bit from a website that purports to explain the “existentialist” philosophy. I don’t really want to discuss existentialism or philisophy here, but I thought this was interesting and germane to the discussion of community.

    “If we live our lives just because of the completely free and autonomous decisions that we make, this creates nothing that is common with others. If we adopt something that comes from someone else, which could give us a common basis to make a connection with them, this is inauthentic. If it just happens, by chance, that our own decisions produce something that matches those of someone else, well then we have a connection, but it is likely to be volatile. As we make new decisions, the probability of our connection with others continuing is going to decline. We are isolated by our own autonomy. The values and decision of others, whether authentic or inauthentic, will be foreign and irritating.”

    Whatever this means, it’s certainly a jumping off point for some interesting discussion…

    Comment by blueneck — February 11, 2007 @ 3:02 pm | Reply

  9. What does community mean to me?
    I tend to think in terms of overlapping communities, rather than in terms of single communities if that makes any sense. (In general, I quite like plurals — they offer wiggle-room).

    I don’t trust in communities or safe places very much as a general rule. When I hear the word ‘safe place’ I end up thinking ‘safe for whom?’ and start thinking that I might be unsafe or that people I care about might be. (Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not out to get you πŸ˜‰ ) In offline disputes, I’ve seen that phrase used too often as a way for the relatively powerful to silence the relatively powerless. But at the same time, I know that desire. I remember wishing desperately for there to be just one solid place to stand within an organisation I was once part of — one place where one did not have to be constantly on guard.

    Often I think community gets used as a synonym for safe space. But communities aren’t necessarily so: they can be oppressive, claustrophobic and downright dangerous. Which is why I prefer communities, perhaps, and the possiblity of moving between them without ever being entirely of them. (Though that may simply be a pathology borne of being an emigrant and of not actually having the option of belonging.)

    None of which is to say that communities and safe spaces don’t matter, or aren’t important.
    Hmm. Bernice Johnson Reagon wrote a fabulous piece called Coalition Politics: Turning the Century which is one of those articles I think everybody should read and think about.

    Anyway, this sounds overly pessimistic (and it’s true that I’m not a particularly hopeful person and haven’t been for some time) — I should make clear that I’m thinking of communities in general and not this one in particular.

    But I think the chances of getting this one to work over the long haul will be better if you try to think in advance about where the faultlines might be and how they might be bridged if and when they emerge (which is quite distinct from setting up rules and whatnot). It is, in a way — I think — what Nanette has already invited people to do.

    I don’t know. For myself, I’m not sure I want this to be a community, exactly. I don’t mind if it is — it’s just that that’s not on my list of wants. I want it to be anti-racist. I want it to be internationalist and I want it to be against empire. And right now, that’s pretty much all I want (she says, looking covetously at the moon).

    Comment by doveaviary — February 11, 2007 @ 3:16 pm | Reply

  10. I want it to be anti-racist. I want it to be internationalist and I want it to be against empire.

    From the cheap seats I say:

    Damn straight.
    No doubt.
    Hell yeah.

    Comment by spiderleaf — February 11, 2007 @ 3:29 pm | Reply

  11. that’s pretty much all I want (she says, looking covetously at the moon).

    lol

    Comment by kansas — February 11, 2007 @ 3:41 pm | Reply

  12. So much to think about here. I need to take my time.

    But I did want to jump in and thank you dove for sharing that speech by Bernice Johnson Reagon. I read it months ago when you linked to it on your blog. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone back to it and used the concepts of “home” and “coalition” in various situations I have found myself in since then. That is some powerful stuff!!

    Comment by nlinstpaul — February 11, 2007 @ 4:24 pm | Reply

  13. Kansas, could you send me email,I sent you one and it came back saying undeliverable.
    Can’t stay to chat, back to bed.

    Comment by diane101 — February 11, 2007 @ 4:45 pm | Reply

  14. For myself, I’m finding it hard to think much outside my borders in the U.S. Even though the actions of this government are having a worldwide effect. They might even be having a millenial effect, if that’s actually a word. While I read and pay attention to the plights of people who are hemmed in and defined by distant borders, for the most part I need to focus what energy and time I have on ways to oppose this one entity because it’s the biggest danger to the world, not because I’m an American, but precisely because I’m a human and my close proximity to Mordor requires me to do so.

    Comment by supersoling — February 11, 2007 @ 4:46 pm | Reply

  15. But I do enjoy watching Tony Blair flail away in Parliament trying to explain his role as the leader of Isengard :o)

    Comment by supersoling — February 11, 2007 @ 4:50 pm | Reply

  16. The only safe space I have is in my mind – and that fails me sometimes too.

    Commune.
    Community.
    Communicate.

    The last of which is the essential piece.

    Comment by liberalcatnip — February 11, 2007 @ 5:30 pm | Reply

  17. I made this the topic of my Sunday Food for Thought. Thanks guys. πŸ™‚

    Comment by liberalcatnip — February 11, 2007 @ 6:18 pm | Reply

  18. I’ve been spending a lot of time thinking about where I belong in the world right now. I’ve been feeling pretty damned confused. The schools around here are gearing up for testing season and I feel like a noose is tightening around my neck. I’ve got a little too much Emerson and Thoreau embedded in my brain to cave in entirely to testing mandates and yet those mandates are, as a teacher, utterly inescapable.

    The only decision I feel absolutely sure about is my decision to marry my husband (even if he does leave every light on in the house) and to become a mom.

    Sorry about veering off topic, it seemed to fit a little.

    Comment by Teacher Toni — February 11, 2007 @ 7:07 pm | Reply

  19. Thomas Moore shares this about community in “Seat of the Soul” and it pretty much sums it up for me.

    “We can apply two tests to discover if a group is really a community:1)Is there a working together, affection and discord, and commonality? 2) Are the members truly individuals, or are they expected to think alike, have shared goals and values, speak the same language or hold to the party line? Community is born when individual and group are no longer felt to be two independent realities. Like all soul entities, community is a paradox. The convivium, a richer word perhaps than community, remains “the sweeter communion of life” even in the presence of differences and disagreements. It doesn’t operate on the level of personalities and ideas, but from a deeper location in the soul.”

    My experience in life is that we all want to be a part of or belong in some way. Whether it be at the local bar or the community board or at school I feel we all look for that sense of togetherness. What I have to remember is everyone has circumstances and try to take that into account. NOw I didn’t say I was very good at it yet but truly want to try and remember that always.

    Comment by alohaleezy — February 11, 2007 @ 7:16 pm | Reply

  20. Teacher Toni, I’m so glad you felt comfortable telling us about that – here or anywhere.

    Just last week I heard someone say that teaching (really teaching) these days is a radical act.

    So, as long as you can hang in there, please know that I consider you to be on the front lines of the revolution and deserving of all the “support for our troops” that we can muster.

    And if there is ever anything we can do to show that support, please let us know!!

    Comment by nlinstpaul — February 11, 2007 @ 7:22 pm | Reply

  21. Thanks nlinstpaul! I urge you to tell those bastards in D.C. to not renew NCLB and that would be a start.

    A sense of togetherness is exactly what is missing in my school alohoaleezy. It’s a fairly miserable place to be on most days – except for most of my students.

    Comment by Teacher Toni — February 11, 2007 @ 7:30 pm | Reply

  22. I am sorry for the position you have found yourself in Teacher Toni. I have always said that teaching is the most undervalues and under paid job in this country. Is there another district that might fit for you better or is it nationwide these days?

    Comment by alohaleezy — February 11, 2007 @ 7:39 pm | Reply

  23. I’m actually going to be meeting with Rep. Betty McCollum in a little over a week to talk about youth/family issues in our community. And seriously, I’ll be happy to pass on your message to her. I’ve checked out the NEA website for their position, but if you have anything different or more personal to add – just let me know here or send me an email.

    Comment by nlinstpaul — February 11, 2007 @ 7:47 pm | Reply

  24. I have thought about another district, but the testing demon is everywhere. Teaching is one of those weird jobs in that if you leave and start somewhere new, you are likely to start at the bottom of the pay scale. Also, my current district allows me to have a fairly short commute, thus keeping my carbon foot print manageable.

    Any personal stories about NCLB? Okay – I teach 11th grade American Literature – yet I am doing test prep in my class on a regular basis. Why? Because my school is a “failing” urban district, with a large number of immigrants. If our scores continue to be low, I can lose my job. Will the tests ask my students about Whitman, Twain, Hurston, etc? Nope – just about grammar, some reading comprehension on random short passages and on writing (all important skills, mind you). But, poetry is taking a back seat.

    Comment by Teacher Toni — February 11, 2007 @ 8:06 pm | Reply

  25. Sounds like you could be teaching in St. Paul – I’ll pass it on. Rep. McCollum doesn’t have a lot of seniority, but apparently she’s quite close to Nancy Pelosi and has been since she went to congress 6 years ago. I know its just a small thing, but I’ll do what I can.

    Comment by nlinstpaul — February 11, 2007 @ 8:20 pm | Reply

  26. Thanks. I guess I needed to vent this evening.

    Comment by Teacher Toni — February 11, 2007 @ 8:27 pm | Reply

  27. So many good thoughts shared, so much to ponder. I agree whatever community “is” it’s never a static thing, and few stay with the same group of people forever. I guess I see the sense of being “in community” with others as a ongoing process: pausing awhile somewhere with like others, making exchanges of caring,trust,experiences, all sorts of learning about each other and ourselves that comes from sharing pleasure and pain, love and anger, hope and disappointment, the whole ball of wax. Maybe it’s something we “experience” more than we “have” and it’s different for each of us.

    I do believe we all have more yet to learn about all of this, and what better way to do that, than together? So,regardless of the eventual outcome here, what we’ve shared so far has been the real thing to me!

    Comment by scribe40 — February 11, 2007 @ 8:32 pm | Reply

  28. Hi again everyone and hi to you Teacher Toni,
    I can almost see and feel the weariness in your words. I’m sorry to hear that your school is miserable on any day, let alone on most days. Something I just realized though. All this time I thought you were Canadian. Can’t recall why now but….

    So…:o) How’s that mini linebacker doing :o)

    Comment by supersoling — February 11, 2007 @ 8:56 pm | Reply

  29. β€œthe sweeter communion of life” even in the presence of differences and disagreements. It doesn’t operate on the level of personalities and ideas, but from a deeper location in the soul.”

    Thanks for the Thomas Moore quote, Leezy.

    Lots of good thoughts here from all of you. I have been pondering the question and I was lined up with Mr Moore, pretty well.

    You know I’ve got something “far out” to describe it, so I won’t disappoint. It is as if I am the community of Shirl (just as each of us is our own community), encompassing all the parts and variations of Shirl that show up at any given moment. At varying times and for varying lengths of time the community of Shirl overlaps with other individuated communities. As we encompass a larger community of selves that overlap we have an expanded community to share. The frequency of combining these overlapping communities varies for each of us depending upon what we wish to give to the larger community and receive from it as well.

    It feels and looks to me like something fluid with a pulse and a heart beat, yet solidity is not its structure. At varying moments solidarity may very well be its presentation, at other times diversity may be more prominent. It is a cohesive flux of energy sometimes as fragile as a soap bubble and other times a fortress of determined purpose.

    That being the case, no such overlapping called community can be all things to all people, nor can it even pretend to feed, nurture, and nourish all. Some days it will exceed all expectations of everyone, some days it will barely meet the needs of any single one.

    However, what feels so perfectly welcoming and sustaining to me about this newly birthed dot in the universe is that I have no expectations of it, I feel no one has expectations of it, nor do I feel that we as individuals have expectations of each other. Now that is monumental in any collective gathering of individuals.

    In human terms it feels to me as if my group of friends gave me a call on the phone and said, “Hey Shirl, we are meeting in Scribe’s Corner (or any other would do just as well)for coffee and chat, wanna come on over?” AS any gathering of friends the topics will be all over the place from personal to political, but the talk will be lively, supportive, questioning, loving, and laughter will be frequently heard. Some will tarry a long while, some will stop by for a few minutes, some will leave and come back to find the chat still going on with maybe all new faces. Just a group of friends talking and sharing themselves with each other. That’s how it feels. I think that is a mighty fine feeling.

    Will it stay that way? Who knows. Everything is in constant change, so faces may come and go and return again or not, but it doesn’t have to be because of screaming, insulting nonsense intended to hurt others. Just depends what any of us are willing to invest in keeping the love and allowing going. If it becomes too much work people will begin to leave. As some individuals experience their own individual growth this particular group may not be what best suits them and they may leave.

    These are all things that you all have expressed above to some degree or other. So we have a brand new boat and it looks to be in tip top shape, we’ve tested the waters and are setting sail for exotic and interesting places unknown. . .let us enjoy the journey, it doesn’t matter what the destination is.

    Hugs and love
    Shirl

    Comment by shirlstars — February 11, 2007 @ 10:39 pm | Reply

  30. Very nice Shirl,
    I like it fine here. Just as I like all of you, love more than a few of you. But I think my main purpose in life right now beyond my eternal parental bonds is pretty simple. I want to kick George Bush’s ass. And kick it so hard that he and his ass are catapulted right the fuck off of our planet.
    Them’s my goals and desires.

    Comment by supersoling — February 11, 2007 @ 11:04 pm | Reply

  31. Perfect! Just one more on the long list of things you and I have in common! Kick butt, big guy, kick butt.

    As a matter of fact today I realized that that nasty bunch in DC has really done it now. I am way past the angry yelling cursing stage. . .I’m getting real quiet. . .and for any who do not know, that means watch out if you value your hide. I was just buckling up my Xena sandal-boots and polishing up the sword when I heard you knocking at the door.

    Hugs,
    Shirl

    Comment by shirlstars — February 11, 2007 @ 11:16 pm | Reply

  32. Ready to rumble!!!!!! Let’s GO!!

    Comment by alohaleezy — February 12, 2007 @ 12:08 am | Reply

  33. Can’t think of anyone I would rather have standing next to me, Leezy!!!

    Let’s Go, indeed!!

    Comment by shirlstars — February 12, 2007 @ 12:22 am | Reply

  34. Good morning all! Goodbye all! Coffee in hand and halfway out the door :o)

    Peace

    Comment by supersoling — February 12, 2007 @ 6:56 am | Reply

  35. Ditto what super said! See you all this eve… and I hear a Family Man will be along to say hi today πŸ™‚

    What a good way to start the week, with you all!

    Comment by spiderleaf — February 12, 2007 @ 7:19 am | Reply

  36. G’day super and spidey, and a warm pre-welcome invite to Family Man.

    Comment by blueneck — February 12, 2007 @ 7:47 am | Reply

  37. Shirls…thanks. It is time to let my warrior maiden sister come out! Here we go.

    Super…have a great day and don’t work too hard.

    FamilyMan a warm welcome if I don’t catch you later.

    Comment by alohaleezy — February 12, 2007 @ 8:53 am | Reply

  38. I slept so late this morning I had to take my vital signs to make sure I was still here. G’mornin, all. Be careful out there…:)
    Coffee. Need more.

    Comment by scribe40 — February 12, 2007 @ 10:33 am | Reply

  39. at essence, it’s what’s named & questioned in the song this diary takes its title from:

    love

    . . . an open question, on-going project

    Comment by arcturus1 — February 12, 2007 @ 11:10 am | Reply

  40. YES!!!!!!!

    Comment by scribe40 — February 12, 2007 @ 11:51 am | Reply

  41. & in a completely different tack, the health of acommunity lies not in the strongest bonds at its core, but the strength of its connections to the peripheries

    Comment by arcturus1 — February 12, 2007 @ 1:07 pm | Reply

  42. Hmmmmmmm. (trying to NOT let my mind take off too far with that right now because I do really have to go clean the kitty litter and take out the garbage)

    But yes, I agree with that. The periphery is where I usually always position myself, by choice , in any new community I end up in. Whether I stay long, or move on, depends a lot on whether I felt a welcome there or not. It doesn’t take much either.

    I think what I want to wait and see is if any community I’m approaching is genuinely welcoming community, or is it a closed shop, functioning primarily to serve it’s own core groups needs. Are newcomers truly welcome, with their variety of different thoughts and opinions, or is it a superficial “auto-welcome”, good for as long as I am a “good girl” and think like the core group does?

    In other words, is it an open community, or a gated community? Because I know for an absolute fact that I do NOT do well in “gated communities” of any kind: never have and never will. (My personal theme song is that oldie goldie: “Don’t Fence Me IN “.

    Comment by scribe40 — February 12, 2007 @ 1:23 pm | Reply

  43. Which raises another question. Can one be, simultaneously, part of the core and part of the periphery? (note to self: STOPIT! Get UP! Take out the garbage.)

    Comment by scribe40 — February 12, 2007 @ 1:44 pm | Reply

  44. β€œDon’t Fence Me IN β€œ.

    Stop that Scribe! 4 year old me thought that was the best song ever. . .hasn’t changed in all these years.

    Hugs gal
    Shirl

    Comment by shirlstars — February 12, 2007 @ 2:08 pm | Reply

  45. Which raises another question. Can one be, simultaneously, part of the core and part of the periphery?

    I think so because that’s how I see my participation in these types of communities – mainly now because I have my blog to take care of and just don’t have time to be completely immersed here or anywhere else.

    I hope lurkers will feel that they can jump right in. That might be hard for some since they’ll obviously get the impression that many of us have known each other via the intertubes for a while now.

    Comment by liberalcatnip — February 12, 2007 @ 3:23 pm | Reply

  46. I know..and it’s hard, on this medium because we can’t see anyone unless they want to be seen. So I sure hope folks will step up and at least say Hi, so we can say Hi back!

    Comment by scribe40 — February 12, 2007 @ 4:39 pm | Reply


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